What happened to thinking for yourself?

As much as I cringe at parts of the trailer, perhaps you should watch it before painting the documentary and its subjects with one broad stroke. I’ve ‘sat in’ on a few Q&As with the film’s directors, and for one you should note that the film itself is a lot more rounded than it may seem. The people and children depicted in the film are also a lot less alienating and a lot smarter than you might give them credit. The directors have stated that especially the three children featured in the film are all bright, articulate, polite, and well-rounded children. As for the adults, there’s a lot of charismatic and Presbyterian-believing folk out there – by some records, it’s the largest growing “belief”/denomination in America – so I really wouldn’t exactly go about saying they don’t think for themselves very well.

Their beliefs are different, but these people passionate and extremely convicted about them. From what I’ve heard, the documentary is a pretty even-handed portrayal of them – although you could never take somebody completely at face value, based on less than 2 hours exposure to them through a film.

As much as I cringe at parts of the trailer, perhaps you should watch it before painting the documentary and its subjects with one broad stroke. I’ve ‘sat in’ on a few Q&As with the film’s directors, and for one you should note that the film itself is a lot more rounded than it may seem. The people and children depicted in the film are also a lot less alienating and a lot smarter than you might give them credit. The directors have stated that especially the three children featured in the film are all bright, articulate, polite, and well-rounded children. As for the adults, there’s a lot of charismatic and Presbyterian-believing folk out there – by some records, it’s the largest growing “belief”/denomination in America – so I really wouldn’t exactly go about saying they don’t think for themselves very well.

Their beliefs are different, but these people passionate and extremely convicted about them. From what I’ve heard, the documentary is a pretty even-handed portrayal of them – although you could never take somebody completely at face value, based on less than 2 hours exposure to them through a film.

First, let me say that discussing what people believe and not believe is very difficult. Especially in a small space like this. Also: I work with marketing and promos, and I know exactly how promomakers pick out the “juicy bits” to fill the seats in the cinema. That’s their job. They are not trying to make a well balanced portrait of the movie.

The ones who made this promo, did an excellent job, starting off with a couple of statements (see below) that make you listen, then building it up with music, faster cutting towards the end, mixing emotional pictures of kids praying (?) and cold facts from the man who says that 80 million are “in” now, and that they have taken the White House and the Congress. And ending it all with the little girl blinking her eyes, tears flowing. Great promo.

No, I haven’t seen the movie, and it’s probably too narrow for cinema where I live (Norway). Maybe a tv-station will air it, or a film club as background for a panel discussion or something.

That being said, I still think this is scary. You say that the people are “passionate and extremely convicted about them”. Spot on. That’s the scary part. Let me pick out two qoutes from the trailer:

“There are two kinds of people in the world: People who love Jesus and people who don’t”. Back to black or white thinking. We or them. Enemy or friend. No grey. No middle. No thinking. Just with us – or against us. You have seen this rhetoric before, haven’t you? And the results are always horrible…

“Where should we be putting our focus? I’ll tell you where our enemies are putting it: They’re putting it on the kids.” And then she goes on telling that the enemies are taking their kids to [similar?] camps and putting handgrenades in their hands.

What kind of weird logic is that? Because the enemy is behaving like complete idiots, we are going to brainwash our kids? “Put up your hands [or something like that], those who are willing to give up their lives for Jesus!”

I’ve seen it 20 times now, both because it’s so disturbing and because it’s an excellent promo for a documentary, and it still gives me the creeps.

First, let me say that discussing what people believe and not believe is very difficult. Especially in a small space like this. Also: I work with marketing and promos, and I know exactly how promomakers pick out the “juicy bits” to fill the seats in the cinema. That’s their job. They are not trying to make a well balanced portrait of the movie.

The ones who made this promo, did an excellent job, starting off with a couple of statements (see below) that make you listen, then building it up with music, faster cutting towards the end, mixing emotional pictures of kids praying (?) and cold facts from the man who says that 80 million are “in” now, and that they have taken the White House and the Congress. And ending it all with the little girl blinking her eyes, tears flowing. Great promo.

No, I haven’t seen the movie, and it’s probably too narrow for cinema where I live (Norway). Maybe a tv-station will air it, or a film club as background for a panel discussion or something.

That being said, I still think this is scary. You say that the people are “passionate and extremely convicted about them”. Spot on. That’s the scary part. Let me pick out two qoutes from the trailer:

“There are two kinds of people in the world: People who love Jesus and people who don’t”. Back to black or white thinking. We or them. Enemy or friend. No grey. No middle. No thinking. Just with us – or against us. You have seen this rhetoric before, haven’t you? And the results are always horrible…

“Where should we be putting our focus? I’ll tell you where our enemies are putting it: They’re putting it on the kids.” And then she goes on telling that the enemies are taking their kids to [similar?] camps and putting handgrenades in their hands.

What kind of weird logic is that? Because the enemy is behaving like complete idiots, we are going to brainwash our kids? “Put up your hands [or something like that], those who are willing to give up their lives for Jesus!”

I’ve seen it 20 times now, both because it’s so disturbing and because it’s an excellent promo for a documentary, and it still gives me the creeps.

Don’t get me wrong; I’m not a fan of Becky Fischer’s (the camp leader) methodology or theological emphasis. I am a Christian, but I believe Jesus came to love and redeem, to offer grace to those willing to take it. The religious right and their contending attitude and us-vs.-them mentality makes me ache in disbelief and concern (especially because their intent might be something I partially agree with, but I so plainly see how their methods are accomplishing the exact opposite of the Gospel’s message, alienating instead of welcoming and embracing). The war-analogous speech and “rhetoric,” as I’m quite content to agree with you that it is, is wrongly placed and ill-focused – especially with young children. No child should be taught like that, even if what they’re being taught is in its real essence good.

Just to provide some further insight, though: While I was talking with a leader from the church who owns the camp (only semi-affiliated with Fischer in that she speaks at their camp), I found out that this emphatic push by Fischer on “Thy Kingdom Come” was exactly that – only a planned emphasis, and one of several topics in these kids’ spiritual “nurturing.” That summer, the camp was about “winning back ground for Christ.” The previous, and the next, were and will be something completely different. Fischer (and the kids) might believe every part of the imperialistic “Crusade” dimension of their faith, but it’s only one part of their faith and it doesn’t necessarily drive their faith like you might interpret it does from watching the documentary and/or its trailer.

In the Q&A I participated in, Heidi and Rachel (the directors) were keen to note that the children were quite aware that the “Battle” they fought wasn’t earthly.

We were very careful to leave in comments from both the children and the adults that clarified and gave context to the point that the subjects of our film were indeed engaged in what they feel is a spiritual war, and not “one of the flesh.” For example, one of the kids says in the movie “I feel like we are being prepared for battle. Not in the way you would for a war in the physical — it’s very exciting, it’s very cool.”

We have been getting the question at Q and A’s a lot, “Do you think that these kids are capable of violence?” and we have been giving a strident “NO!” to this question. The kids are incredibly kind, caring and sweet. The come across in the film as likeable, well mannered and eloquent. I think when an audience has the opportunity to spend some time with the children over the course of the film; perhaps some misunderstandings of the physical vs. spiritual war will be dispelled.

You’re absolutely right, though – it’s a very, very well made trailer. I watched it over and over several times when I first discovered it. Everything from Thomas Newman’s theme from “Pay It Forward” in the beginning of the trailer to the pacing, to the meta-narration by Pastor Ted Haggard (who has since distanced himself from the film) and Mike Papantonio, the talk show host… it all makes for an excellent teaser. You can’t walk away from it without feeling impassioned one way or another.

I hope to see it soon, and I hope it’s able to make its way to Norway somehow soon too.

Don’t get me wrong; I’m not a fan of Becky Fischer’s (the camp leader) methodology or theological emphasis. I am a Christian, but I believe Jesus came to love and redeem, to offer grace to those willing to take it. The religious right and their contending attitude and us-vs.-them mentality makes me ache in disbelief and concern (especially because their intent might be something I partially agree with, but I so plainly see how their methods are accomplishing the exact opposite of the Gospel’s message, alienating instead of welcoming and embracing). The war-analogous speech and “rhetoric,” as I’m quite content to agree with you that it is, is wrongly placed and ill-focused – especially with young children. No child should be taught like that, even if what they’re being taught is in its real essence good.

Just to provide some further insight, though: While I was talking with a leader from the church who owns the camp (only semi-affiliated with Fischer in that she speaks at their camp), I found out that this emphatic push by Fischer on “Thy Kingdom Come” was exactly that – only a planned emphasis, and one of several topics in these kids’ spiritual “nurturing.” That summer, the camp was about “winning back ground for Christ.” The previous, and the next, were and will be something completely different. Fischer (and the kids) might believe every part of the imperialistic “Crusade” dimension of their faith, but it’s only one part of their faith and it doesn’t necessarily drive their faith like you might interpret it does from watching the documentary and/or its trailer.

In the Q&A I participated in, Heidi and Rachel (the directors) were keen to note that the children were quite aware that the “Battle” they fought wasn’t earthly.

We were very careful to leave in comments from both the children and the adults that clarified and gave context to the point that the subjects of our film were indeed engaged in what they feel is a spiritual war, and not “one of the flesh.” For example, one of the kids says in the movie “I feel like we are being prepared for battle. Not in the way you would for a war in the physical — it’s very exciting, it’s very cool.”

We have been getting the question at Q and A’s a lot, “Do you think that these kids are capable of violence?” and we have been giving a strident “NO!” to this question. The kids are incredibly kind, caring and sweet. The come across in the film as likeable, well mannered and eloquent. I think when an audience has the opportunity to spend some time with the children over the course of the film; perhaps some misunderstandings of the physical vs. spiritual war will be dispelled.

You’re absolutely right, though – it’s a very, very well made trailer. I watched it over and over several times when I first discovered it. Everything from Thomas Newman’s theme from “Pay It Forward” in the beginning of the trailer to the pacing, to the meta-narration by Pastor Ted Haggard (who has since distanced himself from the film) and Mike Papantonio, the talk show host… it all makes for an excellent teaser. You can’t walk away from it without feeling impassioned one way or another.

I hope to see it soon, and I hope it’s able to make its way to Norway somehow soon too.

Colbert has a go at this too, and funny enough, he has about the same views as I do: Where’s the logic by fighting fanatism by some other fanatism? And: “No matter what the issue: You are right and they are wrong.”

I like that Colbert use my letter Ø in his “Word” – spelled “Wørd”.

Colbert has a go at this too, and funny enough, he has about the same views as I do: Where’s the logic by fighting fanatism by some other fanatism? And: “No matter what the issue: You are right and they are wrong.”

I like that Colbert use my letter Ø in his “Word” – spelled “Wørd”.